Session Start: Fri Feb 29 22:04:48 2008
Session Ident: Heimdallr
22:05:25 <WK> hello Heimdallr
22:36:54 <Heimdallr> hi
23:19:32 <WK> do you know www.rocheck.de ?
23:23:32 <Heimdallr> cute
23:23:40 <Heimdallr> is that for iro or euro
23:23:45 <WK> euRO sadly
23:24:20 <WK> but the site is backed by the euRO GM team
23:28:09 <WK> so what would you say if iRO had such a site as well?
23:28:56 <Heimdallr> we aren't offering the sales logs as it is private information.
23:29:15 <WK> lol
23:29:19 <WK> no, seriously :(
23:31:23 <Heimdallr> precise information isn't needed, it is what helped cause the inflation that people gripe about nowadays.
23:34:16 <WK> what inflation
23:34:20 <WK> we have a deflation now anyways
23:34:25 <WK> serious at that
23:53:28 <WK> so
23:53:40 <WK> you are completely against it?
23:54:12 <WK> just to draw comparison, euRO obviously has a site like this
23:54:18 <WK> jRO has one or two
23:54:45 <WK> certainly pRO as well
23:54:46 <Heimdallr> the stuff will realign with its realistic worth in time.
23:54:46 <Heimdallr> 
23:54:46 <Heimdallr> Granted prices stuff "sells" for is better than ones that state what it "offers" for.
23:55:22 <Heimdallr> But honestly the extra work on our end to make those available, and keep them cleansed of private information isn't worth it.  
23:55:30 <WK> nonono
23:55:34 <WK> here is the thing
23:55:37 <Heimdallr> We don't even link game data files on our website for security reasons
23:55:49 <WK> don't need any of those
23:55:55 <Heimdallr> I know it is a perl dump into a folder those fansites access.
23:56:01 <WK> exactly
23:56:06 <WK> hear me out
23:56:31 <WK> i could pull the team for it together and get it hosted by iROwiki/bloo
23:57:01 <Heimdallr> the dump of game logs is something that will not be accepted by the security team.
23:57:13 <WK> no problem
23:57:27 <Heimdallr> We don't even have that level of info being outputted to our own website.
23:57:27 <WK> the information can be gathered by a crawler
23:57:38 <Heimdallr> a bot
23:57:41 <WK> essentially
23:57:48 <WK> not made for leveling, but automated, yes
23:57:51 <Heimdallr> how is that different that snipah
23:58:13 <WK> snipah didn't have locations, just prices
23:58:23 <Heimdallr> we wouldn't have locations
23:58:40 <Heimdallr> that is a privacy issue.
23:58:49 <WK> but it's not you giving it out
23:58:59 <Heimdallr> it would be us allowing it.
23:59:40 <WK> well the point IS to have locations though
23:59:51 <WK> so shops can be found easier
23:59:51 <Heimdallr> why is location needed?
00:00:18 <WK> let me tell you
00:00:33 <WK> currently there are at least three private sites being run
00:00:38 <Heimdallr> having a site that shows what stuff is selling for is pointless from an information standpoint,  it just tells people how much to inflate their prices.
00:00:40 <WK> with limited access by individuals
00:00:42 <WK> on chaos
00:00:57 <WK> why inflate
00:01:03 <Heimdallr> a site that said what stuff "sold" at would be a better indicator
00:01:21 <WK> it could go the other way around as well, it could deflate prices
00:01:37 <Heimdallr> people did inflate, within 1 month of snipah going up, prices drasticly increased as we internally predicted
00:02:04 <WK> but that was also a wastly different era, economy was essentially still blooming
00:02:25 <WK> vastly*
00:02:34 <Heimdallr> no it was a bubble that had nothing to do but pop.  That era made the new player an impossible idea.
00:03:15 <Heimdallr> I'm glad the economy is bottomed out, once people realize that todays 10M is yester years 50M things will be better
00:03:19 <WK> i'm saying the private-only sites available to bigged guilds and select individuals hurt more than a public site would
00:03:29 <WK> bigger guilds*
00:03:41 <Heimdallr> We can't offer it in the form you are asking.
00:03:53 <Heimdallr> Either you need no support from us (ie a crawler)
00:04:03 <Heimdallr> or you need specific files we can't provide you.
00:04:11 <WK> well
00:04:57 <WK> the only thing i'd ask from you is an account tied with limited IP access so it can't be abused, and an expiry period of what you see fit
00:05:47 <WK> the only hindrance is really only the need for an account
00:13:30 <Heimdallr> the thing is i don't want locations.
00:14:00 <WK> well, you don't, but that's what the users hailed Tom's RO Shopper for
00:14:02 <Heimdallr> We've gone over the issue internally and iRO players like to have their privacy, look at the ropd issue
00:14:04 <WK> not sure if you remember that site
00:14:14 <Heimdallr> the BUYERS want names/locations
00:14:18 <Heimdallr> not all sellers do.
00:14:27 <WK> you mean they don't want to sell their wares?
00:14:29 <Heimdallr> you aren't giving an opt out function
00:14:52 <WK> technically, we could give an opt-out function as well
00:15:03 <Heimdallr> if you set it up to where they could determine if they would be listed or not then all these issues would be solved.
00:15:13 <Heimdallr> well by default they would have to be "out" 
00:15:20 <Heimdallr> and opt in to be listed and make super sales
00:15:48 <WK> it's possible to set it up so that it doesn't check certain areas, yes
00:16:16 <Heimdallr> that isn't an opt in
00:16:22 <WK> :)
00:16:33 <WK> how about this
00:16:34 <Heimdallr> How about it tracks juno or something
00:16:37 <WK> LOL
00:16:42 <WK> no
00:16:43 <Heimdallr> and then have people vend there
00:16:46 <WK> hahahha
00:16:56 <WK> i'm tearing
00:16:57 <Heimdallr> and we could make a big to do about that so people know
00:17:35 <WK> how about this, we make a testrun and you announce it on the iROF while someone else does on iROWiki
00:17:44 <WK> let's say a week or two test
00:17:53 <WK> with announced start and end date
00:18:01 <Heimdallr> I can't force users to have privacy issues.
00:18:29 <WK> you can't, but you'd see what the general response to it is, and it'd be just that
00:18:32 <WK> a week worth of test-run
00:19:02 <Heimdallr> I'm actually contract bound to do all I can to protect privacy, and to violate that for a game feature is not going to happen, much less a fansite query do it.
00:27:19 <Heimdallr> The idea has potential, but for it to get a stamp of   approval it needs to take those users that don't want a part of it into account.
00:27:51 <Heimdallr> Yes that makes it tricky, but violating privacy is the route to complaints not celebrations.  
00:29:01 <WK> well
00:29:10 <WK> anyone who vends already exposes themselves
00:29:25 <WK> since you can just browse the shops and view their names
00:29:48 <Heimdallr> to in-game wanderers, not to intra web probings.
00:30:10 <WK> their name wouldn't be on the webpage
00:30:30 <WK> in fact, the site wouldn't even keep names
00:30:39 <WK> as in retain them
00:31:16 <WK> all it'd show essentially, is
00:31:22 <WK> item - amount - whereabouts
00:31:48 <WK> if you check www.rocheck.de
00:31:58 <WK> they've made it so that it only gives a general area, not exact coordinates
00:32:46 <Heimdallr> if you made a map on your website of the towns, and giving what "sections are what"
00:33:12 <Heimdallr> like South middle, cross, spawn in, left cross right cross upper cross south fountain etc
00:33:32 <Heimdallr> and had them be color overlays and rated where they were that way.
00:33:38 <Heimdallr> then the issue may be moot
00:34:28 <Heimdallr> like merchant a is at 100, 125  which would = "Left cross" area
00:34:47 <Heimdallr> so the site would just list that as location.
00:42:25 <WK> hmmm
00:43:02 <WK> if we made it that way, would you also be able to provide said account to run it?
00:44:14 <WK> so we don't have to register ourselves trial accounts, or so that we don't have to feel the sword of damocles hanging over our head constantly
Session Close: Sat Mar 01 09:10:28 2008